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Mar 10 09 7:46 PM

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1994 Aspire 5spd.

So Sunday it was raining pretty good and I had to drive about 50miles to meet somebody. I started the car, idled just perfectly. Real mild acceleration was just fine. Pull out on to the main road and it just sputtered and held the RPM, the RPM's would not BUDGE. I let off the throttle and it continues idling just fine. Anything above 1/3 throttle and it would sputter and hold the RPM's right where they were at until I let off the gas.

So I pulled in to a gas station about 15 miles along the way and fill it up, thinking there could be moisture in the fuel tank. I fill it up, and it will not start. It turns over, the engine rotates, but it wouldn't start. I didn't have time to look at it in the pouring rain to my GF picked me up and I had to drive my T-bird (a little too powerful for rainy weather, not to mention 12mpg) to make the meeting.

So I got it towed back home tonight. I figured it was the fuel pump. I connect the wires in the diagnostic port and turn the key forward, and I can feel fuel moving through the fuel line. I disconnected the line after the filter to make sure. Yep, soaked my glove in fuel LOL. I took off a spark plug wire and stuck an old spark plug in it, and rested it against the windshield wiper (so I can see it from inside the car) and crank the engine over, yep, getting spark. It was a yellow spark, not white or blue, but it sparked. This could be due to grounding against the wiper arm, or that I was using an old spark plug that wasn't top notch in the first place. So I've got spark and fuel flow. I don't have a fuel pressure tester, so I don't know the fuel pressure, but it should at least idle, or even TRY to start. It only turns over. I can tell the cylinders are compressing, so I know the timing belt is okay. I sprayed in starting fluid through the throttle body, and it didn't change anything, so I don't think it's the injector pulse (EEC). I ohmed the primary and secondary side of the ignition coil. Primary should ohm .5-.7. It ohmed .97. Would this be out of spec? The secondary side ohmed 23kilohms, manual specifies 20-31kilohms.

So long shorty short: Car only turns over, no chugging or anything. Will not even attempt to start.

-Getting good fuel flow, unsure of pressure though.
-getting spark, yellow spark, not white or blue.
-timing belt okay.
-ohmed ignition coil, primary specifies .5-.7 ohms, mine ohmed .97. secondary specifies 20-31kilohms, mine ohmed 23kilohms.

Only thing I can think of is the distributor (please no, they're expensive!) or the EEC, but the starting fluid didn't change anything, so Id assume the injectors are pulsing fine. I can get a noid light tomorrow to double check that though. Shop's closed right now.

Any help would be more helpful than you'll ever know. I have to drive 400mi round trip Saturday to see my brother before he leaves for Iraq.
-Thomas
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#2 [url]

Mar 10 09 9:01 PM

I considered that, I had to take the dist cap off to test the secondary side of the ignition coil, and there was corrosion up the wazoo in there! Scraped most of it off the dizzy cap but still no luck. I spose I'll test all four cylinders for spark to ensure the ignition coil is good, then replace the cap and rotor (wires are fine) and see what it does. It could make sense, but why would it not start up after shutting it off? Pretty quick change in it's operation.
-Thomas

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#3 [url]

Mar 10 09 9:51 PM

Okay, so I put on a new cap and rotor, thing fired right up. I'm thinking, "Thats all it was? KICK ######!" then the car died. hah.

So I jumpered the FP through the diagnostic port and started the car again. It runs. If I unplug the jumper wire, it dies 10 seconds later, after using the fuel in the rail up. I put my ear against the drivers fender right on the other side of the fuel pump relay location. When I touch the jumper wire to the diagnostic port, I can hear the fuel pump relay clicking.

So my next question. Is there a fuse before the fuel pump relay somewhere? Or could the hot wire to the relay be bad? Maybe something in the ignition switch?

-Thomas

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Taurus

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Posts: 401

#4 [url]

Mar 11 09 4:00 AM

hmm. could it be the impact/kill switch in the rear hatch? the jumper might be able to override that, i don't know. but check to make sure the button didn't pop up.

Karl - Sacramento, CA
'95 Aspire - 5-door, automatic
'98 Jetta GLX

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8144442

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Posts: 1,739

#5 [url]

Mar 11 09 4:42 AM

distributor it sounds like, When discon'd all my ignition leads from the harness it'll wind over, but she wont fire.

Other than that, you might of flooded it too, gotta becareful..

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bluesneaky

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#6 [url]

Mar 11 09 1:10 PM

ice racer or nerd race mentioned that the ECU will shut down the fuel pump if it doesnt get proper signal from the dist for ignition. that was in a recent post (last week i think) might want to check along those lines or PM them to ask. maybe they will stop by and chime in. Ive been lucky and havent had FP issues yet (other than the mouse chewing the insualtion off the wires by the tank, grrrrrr)

Ziggy 1 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c added, 252k, 43 top mpg (still got 'em)
No Name --- '95 teal 2 dr, 5sp, 98K, bad clutch, sold it b4 I named it
Ziggy 2 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c 147k split rear seat, 49.3 top mpg (deceased, mortally injured in towing accident 2008)
Kermit --- '95 teal 2dr, 5sp, a/c 103k, upgraded interior package - the daily driver now
(Had 2 1988 Festivias in the '90's. Over 200k on them too)

All pulled "Trapper" the '89 kamparoo camper on the back roads I should'a been drivin' my jeep on (4x4 aspire??)

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#7 [url]

Mar 11 09 2:14 PM

well I guess Ill just wait for iceracerdude to pop in here then, since he knows these cars better than I would ever want to. lol.

So you're saying the distributor sends a signal to the ECU, which then switches the fuel pump relay on? That's strange, since the fuel pump primes itself prior to the engine firing. I'm not sure why it would operate that way.

-Thomas

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nerd racing

Grand Master Member

Posts: 4,219

#8 [url]

Mar 11 09 2:19 PM

try cleaning your MAF I believe that sends signal to the fuel relay and ECU. You should be able to clean it with some electrical components cleaner pretty easily.

"In a perfect world all the geeks get the girls"

1995 Ford Aspire 3 Door Black, (B8 F-series)---> RIP
1997 Ford Aspire 3 Door Teal ---> Sold '08
1996 Ford Aspire 5 door Green ---> Parted wouldn't hold her oil
1994 Ford Aspire 3 door Red ---> Former BP, V6 Swapped... Rusted Out...
1995 Ford Aspire 5 Door Blurple --> Sold '11 No Room...

1989 Ford Festiva L 4 Speed Carby Model --> Soon to be an Abomination!
1990 AWD 5 Speed Mazda Protege Black -->(BP GTX Trans) Daily Driver/Donor Waiting to Happen... Soon to be BP+T


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nerd racing

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#10 [url]

Mar 11 09 7:59 PM

shoot you are right, I was thinking VAF from the BP my bad

"In a perfect world all the geeks get the girls"

1995 Ford Aspire 3 Door Black, (B8 F-series)---> RIP
1997 Ford Aspire 3 Door Teal ---> Sold '08
1996 Ford Aspire 5 door Green ---> Parted wouldn't hold her oil
1994 Ford Aspire 3 door Red ---> Former BP, V6 Swapped... Rusted Out...
1995 Ford Aspire 5 Door Blurple --> Sold '11 No Room...

1989 Ford Festiva L 4 Speed Carby Model --> Soon to be an Abomination!
1990 AWD 5 Speed Mazda Protege Black -->(BP GTX Trans) Daily Driver/Donor Waiting to Happen... Soon to be BP+T


Facebook Me!

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bluesneaky

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#11 [url]

Mar 12 09 11:03 AM

OK here is a quote from the Ford PCED

"When the ignition is switched to the ON position, it turns the EEC Power Relay on. The EEC Power Relay provides power to the EEC-IV processor and the control side of the fuel pump relay. Power for the fuel pump is supplied through a fuse link or high current fuse attached to the starter solenoid (battery side). From the fuse link or high current fuse, current flow is through the fuel pump relay and Inertia Fuel Shutoff (IFS) switch to the fuel pump. The IFS switch is a safety device used to shut off the fuel pump in the event of a collision. If the IFS switch is "tripped," it must be reset by depressing the white or red button on the top of the switch. The fuel pump relay is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

When the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, the fuel pump will operate. If the ignition switch is not turned to the START position, the PCM will shut the fuel pump off after approximately one second. The PCM will operate the fuel pump when the ignition is in the START position to provide fuel while cranking.

After the engine starts, the PCM will continue to operate the fuel pump unless the engine stops, engine speed drops below 120 rpm, or the IFS switch is "tripped."


Fuel presure btw is 30-38. Looking at the EVTM schematic I see the data link jump is on the same wire as the one comming from the PCU so that pretty much verifies that the wire leading to the relay is ok. You (when you jump it) and the PCU are providing a ground to the hot relay to energize which in turn switchs in the ground to the fuel pump. The IFS is down stream of the pump and in its path to receive that ground needed to operate the pump.

If the 120 rpm idea is true then you might look on the rpm pulse line from the distributor. this is the one that does not run to the instrument cluster on the 96 and 97's but I think is still there on those models and goes just to the PCU (dont quote me on that, I just have had 95's) In any case it would be a sure fire way the PCU would know if the engine was running or not. By the way if you want to check the signal comming out of the PCU to the relay its on pin 15 of C201 - says its a white and yellow wire.

The only info exchanged from the PCU and ditributor are on pins 4,3,16 of c200 on the PCU. those are tach signal pin 16 black/red, crank postion on pin 3 green and black, and the CID on pin 4 green and red but I dont think that is likely used for what your looking for. Likely if it is the distributor its pin 3 or 16 since they are feed back about the speed of the engine to the PCU.

Let me know what you find on the PCU to pump relay, if it is sending the signal out on pin 15. If it isnt then I can dig more on the PCU. Its not covered so well in the manual. I kind of have to look for signals going to it and so far just looked at the distributor area for it to determine if the engine is running.

Hope some of this helps!

Sneaky

Ziggy 1 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c added, 252k, 43 top mpg (still got 'em)
No Name --- '95 teal 2 dr, 5sp, 98K, bad clutch, sold it b4 I named it
Ziggy 2 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c 147k split rear seat, 49.3 top mpg (deceased, mortally injured in towing accident 2008)
Kermit --- '95 teal 2dr, 5sp, a/c 103k, upgraded interior package - the daily driver now
(Had 2 1988 Festivias in the '90's. Over 200k on them too)

All pulled "Trapper" the '89 kamparoo camper on the back roads I should'a been drivin' my jeep on (4x4 aspire??)

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bluesneaky

Executive Member

Posts: 490

#12 [url]

Mar 12 09 11:45 AM

Forgot to mention, this is info from a 95. CPS on the distributor changes on 96 and 97. they have a distributor that looks the same but isnt. Crank postion was moved out of the distributor on the last two years. Cant help you on the exacts cuz I only have 95's. Think it was moved down by the crank (who'd a thunk that one? a crank postion sensor mounted on the crank...)

PM Iceracer, he knows morte than me on 'em.

Ziggy 1 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c added, 252k, 43 top mpg (still got 'em)
No Name --- '95 teal 2 dr, 5sp, 98K, bad clutch, sold it b4 I named it
Ziggy 2 --- '95 white 2dr, 5sp, a/c 147k split rear seat, 49.3 top mpg (deceased, mortally injured in towing accident 2008)
Kermit --- '95 teal 2dr, 5sp, a/c 103k, upgraded interior package - the daily driver now
(Had 2 1988 Festivias in the '90's. Over 200k on them too)

All pulled "Trapper" the '89 kamparoo camper on the back roads I should'a been drivin' my jeep on (4x4 aspire??)

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#13 [url]

Mar 14 09 11:39 PM

Thanks for the info, in fact I've been talking to iceracerdude since Wednesday and I have power at all 3 of the wires at the fuel pump relay that should have power. I'm getting ground at the fuel pump, I don't think I'm getting the ground to the relay (which is what the fuel pump jumper in the diagnostic link is providing) so I think the problem is in the tach signal from the distributor, which MIGHT explain why it ohm'd outside the suggested range of .6-.7. It ohm'd .97

btw, I might just leave it this way until the dsitributor gives out completely, since a rebuilt distributor is in the $220 range, and the jumper just lasted me a 400mi round trip without a hitch. Just got home.

-Thomas

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#14 [url]

Mar 14 09 11:47 PM

Alternately there are some guys on ebay that are selling distributor parts. That may be a way to go.

…..All men drive to the ratio of a different differential.

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iceracerdude

Ultimate Member

Posts: 2,121

#15 [url]

Mar 15 09 9:57 AM

We've already figured that he's simply not getting that ground, the pcm is supposed to be sending, everything else is checking out ok. I wish I could give him my spare dist. to try out because that's what I think is holding everything up. Or more specificaly, that ign. module inside it. I don't think the pcm is getting what it wants, so in turn, it's not giving us that relay ground. He's suppling the ground manually with a paper clip at the test point. Pretty clever of him I thought.

The precision is the religion for me!

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